Wednesday, June 29, 2005


Here is something I have found myself thinking about during the discussion on theocracy.
A commonly heard question when espousing the virtues of a country based on the laws of God rather then those devised by man, is "It would end up like Iran/Afghanistan/..."

I would like to look at this from a Muslim perspective, which I really don't have, so I will look at this from a Jewishly perceived perspective of a Musilm.
These are the best governments possible.

The main problem with them is that they support terrorism. But that is part of their religion. So while we may think they are lousy places to live that is because we do not accept their rule of law. We don't accept their rules as being from God. But if we had our own country with our own rules that we believe come from God, how great would that be.

I would like to hear some comments, if possible, on what is wrong with a government similar to Iran. It seems that people believe that would be horrible. I'll bet the Iranians don't feel that way. They look at the US, a country that doesn't care if you violate Gods law with disdain at the obvious lack of morality.


Anonymous said...

I dont think the fact that terrorism is part of their religion is the only problem.

People in general dont like to be forced to do something that they dont believe in. You believe in God and you believe Judaism is a good religion. So, for you it works.

However, if someone does not have these beliefs he will feel that people are forcing him into things that he does not believe in... which will only lead to rebellion. JMO

BarbaraFromCalifornia said...

I agree with Heidi and have other concerns as well.

First of all, Israel is the only country, among its many neighbors with a true democracy. What this means, is that women and men are, for the most part treated equally and with respect as far as the laws of the Jewish state are concerned. Women fight in the military, as do men, are allowed to drive, and not treated as second class citizens, even by the ultra-frum. So, from an political and social point of view, if Israel were to become like Iran, it would be a step backwards, in my opinion.

Secondly, I do not think that most Israelis would want this type of extreme government imposed upon them. As we have seen, extremisism can and often does result in problems for people, including our own. Men and women who feel as if they have to live by the most rigid sets of rules often engage in even worse behavior, because of the emotions and conditions that are churning inside of them. To me, this is not healthy.

Since I do not live in Israel, I will not even pretend to understand everything that goes on there. It is my belief, howerver, that the Jewish people have an absolute right to live peacefully and free of terrorists, as does everyone else in this world.

CJ Srullowitz said...

There is a terrific article, lulei demistafina, about Israel, Iran, and AIPAC in this week's New Yorker.

Try this link:

The Lazy Iguana said...

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

The Lazy Iguana said...

Published before I was done.

The politics of the middle east are very complicated. The Muslim people and the West have totally different viewpoints.

Israel is more western than the islamic nations. This is just the way it is. It is not a big shock to me that the USA seems to favor Israel - Americans can understant their viewpoint.

As for islamic law nations, we (the west) does not understand them. We look over there and see that women are treated horribly, and that there seems to be few human rights. But the people that live there might see things differently. They look to the west and see decadence, greed, unholiness, and a slew of other negative things. They might NOT want to be "like us".

And I do not believe that Islam advocates terrorism any more than Zionism does. And in the Christian faith, there is the whole "Crusade" thing. How is a crusade different from a jihad? The two words mean the same thing.

So my above statement is now explained. Who the terrorist is depends on whose eyes you are looking through.

rockofgalilee said...

The laws of any country, whether secular or religious can be looked at in the same way.
For example, if I want to smoke marijuana that is forbidden in the United States. If a woman wants to walk around the streets without a shirt on, that is forbidden in the United States. If you do not like the laws of the United States and break them you will go to jail. By living in the United States you are accepting the law of the land. If you don't accept the law of the land, then you should leave.

In a religious country it would work the same way. You may not think it is anybody's business what type of food you eat. However, if that is the law then you can either accept it anyway or find another place to live.

I don't think that becoming a religious country is applicable right now, because the people are not ready to accept it yet. Once the people accept the religion again, then they will want to behave in the way that God has prescribed. Obviously if you don't believe that it was God who said that a Jew must eat kosher then you think you can be a moral person and eat whatever you want.

I am talking about the ideal society, which unfortuantely cannot exist in our current society.

Lazy Iguana,
I agree with you fully. When I said they support terrorism, I simply meant what is today defined as terrorism.
Judaism, for example, supports, in fact demands, genocide in certain circumstances. The Jewish people were commanded to completely wipe out the people of Amalek, and King Saul was punished because he left 1 person alive.
We know Christian history, which was kill anyone who will not convert.
The Muslims are just today's radicals.

Anonymous said...

In theory I agree with you, and I agree with the concept.

However, if I were a secular Israeli,living there for years... and some little red head punk moved to my country and started demanding that I become frum, or else I will get arrested, Im not sure how I would respond.